Does anyone actually believe the TSA?

[Porkchop]

I've spent the past two years as a Field Engineer, which puts me in the air a minimum of four times a week, every week. My primary hub has been Hartsfield (ATL), the busiest airport in the world. I'm a "professional" flyer who's main goal is to get through security as quickly as possible. In roughly 500 flights, I have never encountered a rude TSA employee. Not one. I have, however, encountered many rude travelers. Too many to count.

I have absolutely no problem with the full body scans, and have on many occasions opted for them, rather than removing extra layers of clothing. It's fast and painless. I couldn't care less if some TSA employee see's my junk. In fact, I feel bad for them for having to look at it. ;-) I also don't care if it's stored on a hard disk for all eternity, leaked to Entertainment Tonite, or used on someone's Christmas Cards. It's a human body, nothing more. There's a few billion of them just like mine out there. Big deal.

What I do care about is whether or not someone has half a pound of Semtex taped to their junk, with the goal of blowing themselves, and me along with them, to paradise and martyrdom. I want to get where I'm going safely, and I won't jeopardize my life for the sake of someone else's modesty. If you don't want scanned, that's fine. You have options that don't include flying.

Countering with "someone could blow the terminal outside of security" is faulty logic and doesn't negate the airborne threat. Someone could do any number of things. Blow up an oil refinery, blow up a shopping mall, blow up an NFL game. The opportunities for high body counts are endless. But, there is absolutely nothing as spectacular as bringing down an airliner. It strikes at our deep seated fear of flying, and it can grind our economy to a halt.

We should use El Al as our model. The Israelis have the best track record in the world.

Just my .02 Hope that all of you flyers out there get where you're going quickly and safely, and don't get the middle seat.

 

[Porkchop]

Probable Cause for Search

They show probable cause the same way a cop on the street would. If a cop detects the odor of marijuana coming from your car, he has probable cause to search it. He doesn't need the odor to be electronically documented. It's his word, backed by experience and his sworn status. You can argue it in court until the cows come home, but a grand jury is going to err on the side of the cop, unless they have good reason to believe otherwise.

The TSA screener sees something suspicious on your scan, brings you into a screening room, and physically confirms or clears the suspicious item. If, for instance, they find that you have a brick of C4 in your pants, storage of the scanned image becomes a moot point, as it would not be needed for your arrest and subsequent trial. The body scanners are screening tools designed to identify suspicious travelers for closer physical inspection. You don't get scanned, then placed under arrest based solely on the image on the monitor. Scanning is simply the first step in the detection process.

From the TSA's website on the privacy of scanners:



With no record and no permanent storage how do they prove probable cause? How do they get a conviction?

Is it all based on the 'word' of a TSA screener? That;'s reassuring.

Am I the only one skeptical of what the TSA tells us?

 

[Lynnie]

We should use El Al as our model. The Israelis have the best track record in the world.

Just my .02 Hope that all of you flyers out there get where you're going quickly and safely, and don't get the middle seat.

I have encountered rude TSA personnel, but that was the early days. You're right about rude travelers - the worst encounter.

And, I second your suggestion to follow El Al. Why we haven't is beyond me, but probably because of our size more than anything. Undercover Marshalls (ok) - not on every flight (not ok).

 

[futurebeachbum]

We should use El Al as our model. The Israelis have the best track record in the world.

Exactly.

Of course they don't use the full body scanners. They have agents trained to spot suspicious behavior and they profile their passengers.

I'm doubtful that either would work here, given the caliber of TSA employees and our mindlessly negative reaction to profiling.

 

[Bob]

why don't we just suspend the bill of rights and live in a police state devoid of any human dignity or privacy. it would be totally safe.

 

[CampCreekLou]

We should use El Al as our model. The Israelis have the best track record in the world.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't El Al profile? And not use scanners?

If that's the case, then I'm in.

Target the terrorists, don't waste time on the 90% of flyers who are no threat.

 

[Will B]

And, I second your suggestion to follow El Al. Why we haven't is beyond me, but probably because of our size more than anything. Undercover Marshalls (ok) - not on every flight (not ok).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't El Al profile? And not use scanners?

Yes...El Al profiles. They profile the snot out of all their passengers. It is big time racial and ethnic profiling with a lot of psychology involved. Unfortunately, the US is uber politically correct to a fault in some cases so we will probably never see the practices that El Al uses on an American flag carrier which is too bad. I think I'd rather have uncomfortable questions asked of me rather than some minimum wage security guard touchin' my "junk".

Here's an interesting article that gives a little insight into what they do.

Airline security: Gordon Brown must learn from Israel and El Al | News & Politics | News & Comment | The First Post

 

[beachmouse]

A friend on another board has artificial joints that are guaranteed to set off a metal detector 100% of the time. And consequently get sent for secondary screening 100% of the time she flies. In her latest trip, she was subjected to the new 'enhanced patdown', which she described as meeting any textbook definition of sexual assult any state has on the books. And she's a nice middle-aged lady not prone to exaggeration.

And despite her explanation that it was her knee replacements that were setting off the scanners, at no time was there an attempt to use a hand-held metal detector to verify the location of the metal on her, just the groping of her crotch.

 

[Will B]

Hand held metal detectors are not accepted as wrote, anymore. They can be used to ensure that you have no metal on your person (forgotten change, watches, etc...), but if you continue to set it off, you will have to go through the full body scan or get groped regardless. Those will be your only two choices until things change.

 

[scooterbug44]

A friend on another board has artificial joints that are guaranteed to set off a metal detector 100% of the time. And consequently get sent for secondary screening 100% of the time she flies. In her latest trip, she was subjected to the new 'enhanced patdown', which she described as meeting any textbook definition of sexual assult any state has on the books. And she's a nice middle-aged lady not prone to exaggeration.

And despite her explanation that it was her knee replacements that were setting off the scanners, at no time was there an attempt to use a hand-held metal detector to verify the location of the metal on her, just the groping of her crotch.

Per Papa Scooterbug, she is supposed to have a special card to show the TSA that she has had surgery/artificial joints.

Of course, TSA does not really care - Papa Scooterbug wears shorts or loose pants so he can preemptively show them his giant scar, has the special card, and still gets hassled...........which is why he likes the full body scanners.

I can see the "enhanced patdowns" being used IF there is a valid suspicion that someone is hiding something THERE, but I frankly think they are stupid, cause problems, and violate people's rights.

Any female can smuggle an item in 2 places you can't reach during this groping, and any man can smuggle it in 1. Not to mention the fact that almost every padded bra sold already has "pockets" for a removable pad on the inside.

Heck, I used to sometimes use my non-padded (and rather small) bra instead of a purse in college and you couldn't see it - dorm key, cash, ID, gum, drink tickets, condoms.