AZ sheriff blames political rhetoric

[30ashopper]

And maybe, just maybe, this last incident (one of many violent attacks against those on her "hit list" BTW) was the one they thought was going to be the final straw.

Vandalism (including of Gifford's office 24 hours after that was posted), some idiot cutting a gas line at what he thought was another targeted Congressman's house (the posted address was wrong), and death threats and violence against other Congresspeople didn't make them take it down.

Whose opinion will you listen to? How about Congresswoman Giffords? She summed it up pretty effectively back in March:

?We?re on Sarah Palin?s targeted list, but the thing is, that the way she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they?ve gotta realize there?s consequences to that action.?

Palin, meet consequences.

Anyone who knows anything about guns knows you always treat one like it's loaded and you never aim one at anything you don't want to shoot. They also know bullets can travel far beyond their intended targets.

The Congresswoman that Palin drew crosshairs on just got shot, 6 innocent people are dead, and 13 others are injured.

No amount of spin is going to change those facts.



I could give a rat's arse about the politics. The facts are that when you advocate violence, you run the risk of being responsible for the violent incidents that result.

Maybe its not about left/right, but THAT YOU SHOULDN'T ADVOCATE VIOLENCE.

Pure bull****. Nobody was advocating violence with cross hatches on states. You know that, your lefty friends know that, and now you all are just trying to score political points over this sad occurrence. Shame on you.

 

[LuciferSam]

I agree - they also might have guessed (correctly) that the left would use it against her no matter what the facts were.

No guesswork necessary. The left had already been using it against her, and rightfully so.

 

[30ashopper]

A person with a mental illness shouldn't be "put in a mental ward" unless that's a last resort.

S/he should get therapy and meds to help him/her live a normal life. Unfortunately there are many people with mental illnesses who do not qualify for medicaid yet cannot afford any type of medical care, including psychiatric care, because they can't get private insurance.

Well, in two years, our tax dollars will be subsidizing this type of care for anyone who makes less than about 80K a year. So, assuming we are willing to raise taxes on ourselves to pay for it, problem solved I guess.

 

[scooterbug44]

Pure bull****. Nobody was advocating violence with cross hatches on states. You know that, your lefty friends know that, and now you all are just trying to score political points over this sad occurrence. Shame on you.

Pure bullsheet right back at you. In what world does drawing a gunsight on someone not denote violence in any way?

It isn't a right/left issue, no matter how you try to dismiss it as one.

It's about condemning those who use incendiary language and trying to change the acceptability of that. I frequently criticize members of both parties (often at the same time because one is usually only slightly worse than the other) for the level of political discourse in this country.

Palin's actions and involvement in this case made her an obvious example of what is wrong and what needs to change.

Nowhere did I say she is the only person who has ever made inappropriate comments or that the Democrats have done a fabulous job of taking the high road and elevating political discourse in this country (because we know that's a crock.)

This thread is about what role increasingly nasty political rhetoric has in escalating violent incidents.

If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck, sheds duck feathers, has webbed feet, and appears on the cover of "Duck Digest," I am going to call it a duck.

And that's also who I'm going to blame for the giant pile of duck sheet.

Don't like it, stop being a duck.

 

[Minnie]

I am not a Palin supporter, but not a hater either. I have watched her Alaska series not because I support her, but because it allowed me to somewhat better understand her and the beautiful state she lives in.

We are all a product of our upbringing, the influence of where we live. I don't think she would make a good President or even VP, for many reasons but the special did let me see that physicially and mentally she is a very tough woman.

As to the cross hairs, I did not find it appropriate but I did not find the other chart with the bulls eye either. Both have to do with targets.

While I felt neither are appropriate I don't feel either would be enough to push someone over the edge. People that do this type of violence have been over the edge long before the event.

If more people could be as gracious and forgiving as the parents of the young girl that died we would be a much better nation.

They blamed no one and even felt remorse for the young man that he was in such a horrible place that he felt this was his only option.

They probably more than anyone had a very good reason to hate, and yet they didn't.

When asked what would they like her legacy to be, and they replied, Peace, simply peace.

 

[30ashopper]

Pure bullsheet right back at you. In what world does drawing a gunsight on someone not denote violence in any way?

It isn't a right/left issue, no matter how you try to dismiss it as one.

It's about condemning those who use incendiary language and trying to change the acceptability of that. I frequently criticize members of both parties (often at the same time because one is usually only slightly worse than the other) for the level of political discourse in this country.

Palin's actions and involvement in this case made her an obvious example of what is wrong and what needs to change.

Nowhere did I say she is the only person who has ever made inappropriate comments or that the Democrats have done a fabulous job of taking the high road and elevating political discourse in this country (because we know that's a crock.)

This thread is about what role increasingly nasty political rhetoric has in escalating violent incidents.

If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck, sheds duck feathers, has webbed feet, and appears on the cover of "Duck Digest," I am going to call it a duck.

And that's also who I'm going to blame for the giant pile of duck sheet.

Don't like it, stop being a duck.

You can't expand this out when it's convenient. You tried to make a direct connection between Palin and the Loughnger incident, then you went further and implied Palin advocated violence. I call shenanigans on that. If you want to complain about the vitriol of our political discourse and argue it?s the cause of heightened threats or hate mail or whatever, fine. There's plenty of that going on on all sides of the political isle. But tying Loughnger to Palin is complete bs.

 

[AndrewG]

There's a rumor floating around that the Sheriff was notified of multiple threats Loughner had made on people lives(not the Congresswoman). They are saying the sheriff personally reassured them that a restraining order wasn't necessary and that Loughner was getting the help/therapy he needed.

Not sure if this is all speculation or there are facts to support this. Guess we'll find out soon... I really hope this turns out to be false.

 

[Rita]

.

Mother Jones' number crunchers try to answer the question ?What if 31 shots had been only 10??

When there was the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, before 2004, Loughner would have been restricted to 10 bullets. They calculated that with the same hit ratio, 6 people would have been shot and maybe 1 or two killed. (vs 20 injured and 6 killed)

?The Brady Campaign is supporting a new bill by Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) that would?renew the Assault Weapons Ban, a Democratic priority that the Obama administration had essentially abandoned.

Of course, a renewed ban will do little to get rid of the thousands of high-capacity clips already in circulation. While seven states and the District of Columbia ban clips of the sort Jared Loughner allegedly used, they're widely available in Arizona gun stores and enthusiastically marketed by gun makers....?

What if 31 Shots Had Been Only 10? | Mother Jones



.

 

[GoodWitch58]

I think we already do. I'd guess most mental wards are state run and state funded, so the state would be paying for treatment. If these folks were out on the streets, medicaid would cover them assuming they were within the income levels and knew how to get signed up.

I don't know how well we fund such things here in florida, it's an interesting question.

if you are really interested, you would do well to do a little research to see just how poorly mental health issues are handled in this state...and if the health care reform bill is repealed, then the parity issue will go away...NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness - Mental Health Support, Education and Advocacy is a good place to start.

http://www.nami.org/gtsTemplate09.c...management/contentdisplay.cfm&contentID=74682

[quoteIn 2006, Florida?s mental health care system received a grade of C. Three years later, as the need for public mental health services is growing, the state?s grade has slipped to a D. Full narrative (PDF).][/quote]

 

[Linda]

And maybe, just maybe, this last incident (one of many violent attacks against those on her "hit list" BTW) was the one they thought was going to be the final straw.

Vandalism (including of Gifford's office 24 hours after that was posted), some idiot cutting a gas line at what he thought was another targeted Congressman's house (the posted address was wrong), and death threats and violence against other Congresspeople didn't make them take it down.

Whose opinion will you listen to? How about Congresswoman Giffords? She summed it up pretty effectively back in March:

?We?re on Sarah Palin?s targeted list, but the thing is, that the way she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they?ve gotta realize there?s consequences to that action.?

Palin, meet consequences.

Anyone who knows anything about guns knows you always treat one like it's loaded and you never aim one at anything you don't want to shoot. They also know bullets can travel far beyond their intended targets.

The Congresswoman that Palin drew crosshairs on just got shot, 6 innocent people are dead, and 13 others are injured.

No amount of spin is going to change those facts.



I could give a rat's arse about the politics. The facts are that when you advocate violence, you run the risk of being responsible for the violent incidents that result.

Maybe its not about left/right, but THAT YOU SHOULDN'T ADVOCATE VIOLENCE.

I agree with this statement but I don't agree that Sarah Palin has ever advocated violence. To advocate means to speak or write in favor of; support or urge by argument; recommend publicly.